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 U.S. Politics: Bigly Cognitive Dissonance Edition 
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
RT Was Forced to Register as a Foreign Agent
And too many free-speech advocates and journalists have been silent about it
https://www.thenation.com/article/rt-wa ... ign-agent/

‘Russiagate’ Zealots (Mainly Democrats) Have Become a Major Threat to US National Security
https://www.thenation.com/article/russi ... -security/


'Keep fighting the good fight': Marine veteran’s letter of support for RT America
https://www.rt.com/usa/410222-rt-americ ... e-veteran/

U.S. WAR WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA MORE LIKELY AS WORLD POWER SHIFTS FROM WEST TO EAST, NATO SAYS
http://www.newsweek.com/us-war-russia-c ... ato-715160?


20 Nov 2017, 18:32
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/us-tax ... zoq1n.html

Quote:
Trump, in short, is no populist, he is only masquerading as one. He's a fake populist. Then again, Trump has never made any bones about his attitude to enriching himself. "The point is," as he once said, "you can never be too greedy."


Let's MAGA by adding $1.3tn to the deficit! http://thehill.com/policy/finance/36125 ... for-itself

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20 Nov 2017, 18:42
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Guys, I think Dommy is upset that the Trump/Russia thing isn't a hoax conjured up by that wicked witch Hillary. :lol:


20 Nov 2017, 18:45
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Rottenrocker wrote:
Guys, I think Dommy is upset that the Trump/Russia thing isn't a hoax conjured up by that wicked witch Hillary. :lol:


Says the guy who said Brexit vote would not happen and Hillary would become President :lol:


20 Nov 2017, 18:48
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
No, says...

Disrupticon wrote:
You don't have 3 separate investigations, 2 arrests in less than a year, and one Proactive Cooperator (that we know of) over nothing. The indictments may have just been a message to show what happens when you don't cooperate, but I have no doubt we'll be seeing more of them.


The facts, the actual investigations, charges and plea deals.

But it's ok, read the Slate article. I bet you haven't.

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20 Nov 2017, 18:54
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
I'm sure that slate article has the same hard evidence as Mueller, who has a history of hoax evidence :lol: :lol: :lol:


20 Nov 2017, 18:56
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Almost as lame as a Zerohedge link. Almost. :lol:


20 Nov 2017, 18:57
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Yeah, but you do right?

Like that Brexit vote and Trump. Right? :lol:


20 Nov 2017, 18:57
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
So insecure. :roll:


20 Nov 2017, 19:03
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
So if you thought people couldn’t possibly be so short sighted in those two instance you’re wrong about everything forever.

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20 Nov 2017, 19:03
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
:lol:


20 Nov 2017, 19:04
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Right.

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20 Nov 2017, 19:05
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Some people know what's going on in politics and others pretend to know. Pretty simple.
Some people are just wrong on ALL big political events.


20 Nov 2017, 19:07
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Some people have a very high opinion of themselves.

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20 Nov 2017, 19:08
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Well, I'm not wrong on all important events on politics :roll:


20 Nov 2017, 19:11
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Delusional and insecure. Not a red flag at all.


20 Nov 2017, 19:17
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Is that a self description of yours? :spit:


20 Nov 2017, 19:21
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Domsen wrote:
I'm sure that slate article has the same hard evidence as Mueller, who has a history of hoax evidence :lol: :lol: :lol:


Because you obviously didn't even click the link... (though I doubt you'll read this, because...well we all know why).

Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?
An interplay between how all humans think and how conservatives tend to act might actually explain a lot about our current moment.

Many conservatives have a loose relationship with facts. The right-wing denial of what most people think of as accepted reality starts with political issues: As recently as 2016, 45 percent of Republicans still believed that the Affordable Care Act included “death panels” (it doesn’t). A 2015 poll found that 54 percent of GOP primary voters believed then-President Obama to be a Muslim (…he isn’t).

Then there are the false beliefs about generally accepted science. Only 25 percent of self-proclaimed Trump voters agree that climate change is caused by human activities. Only 43 percent of Republicans overall believe that humans have evolved over time.

And then it gets really crazy. Almost 1 in 6 Trump voters, while simultaneously viewing photographs of the crowds at the 2016 inauguration of Donald Trump and at the 2012 inauguration of Barack Obama , insisted that the former were larger. Sixty-six percent of self-described “very conservative” Americans seriously believe that “Muslims are covertly implementing Sharia law in American courts.” Forty-six percent of Trump voters polled just after the 2016 election either thought that Hillary Clinton was connected to a child sex trafficking ring run out of the basement of a pizzeria in Washington, D.C., or weren’t sure if it was true.

If “truth” is judged on the basis of Enlightenment ideas of reason and more or less objective “evidence,” many of the substantive positions common on the right seem to border on delusional. The left is certainly not immune to credulity (most commonly about the safety of vaccines, GMO foods, and fracking), but the right seems to specialize in it. “Misinformation is currently predominantly a pathology of the right,” concluded a team of scholars from the Harvard Kennedy School and Northeastern University at a February 2017 conference. A BuzzFeed analysis found that three main hyperconservative Facebook pages were roughly twice as likely as three leading ultraliberal Facebook pages to publish fake or misleading information.

Why are conservatives so susceptible to misinformation? The right wing’s disregard for facts and reasoning is not a matter of stupidity or lack of education. College-educated Republicans are actually more likely than less-educated Republicans to have believed that Barack Obama was a Muslim and that “death panels” were part of the ACA. And for political conservatives, but not for liberals, greater knowledge of science and math is associated with a greater likelihood of dismissing what almost all scientists believe about the human causation of global warming.

It’s also not just misinformation gained from too many hours listening to Fox News, either, because correcting the falsehoods doesn’t change their opinions. For example, nine months following the release of President Obama’s long-form birth certificate, the percentage of Republicans who believed that he was not American-born was actually higher than before the release. Similarly, during the 2012 presidential campaign, Democrats corrected their previous overestimates of the unemployment rate after the Bureau of Labor Statistics released the actual data. Republicans’ overestimated even more than before.

Part of the problem is widespread suspicion of facts—any facts. Both mistrust of scientists and other “experts” and mistrust of the mass media that reports what scientists and experts believe have increased among conservatives (but not among liberals) since the early ’80s. The mistrust has in part, at least, been deliberately inculcated. The fossil fuel industry publicizes studies to confuse the climate change debate; Big Pharma hides unfavorable information on drug safety and efficacy; and many schools in conservative areas teach students that evolution is “just a theory.” The public is understandably confused about both the findings and methods of science. “Fake news” deliberately created for political or economic gain and Donald Trump’s claims that media sites that disagree with him are “fake news” add to the mistrust.

But, the gullibility of many on the right seems to have deeper roots even than this. That may be because at the most basic level, conservatives and liberals seem to hold different beliefs about what constitutes “truth.” Finding facts and pursuing evidence and trusting science is part of liberal ideology itself. For many conservatives, faith and intuition and trust in revealed truth appear as equally valid sources of truth.

To understand how these differences manifest and what we might do about them, it helps to understand how all humans reason and rationalize: In other words, let’s take a detour into psychology. Freud distinguished between “errors” on the one hand, “illusions” and “delusions” on the other. Errors, he argued, simply reflect lack of knowledge or poor logic; Aristotle’s belief that vermin form out of dung was an error. But illusions and delusions are based on conscious or unconscious wishes; Columbus’s belief that he had found a new route to the Indies was a delusion based on his wish that he had done so.

Although Freud is out of favor with many contemporary psychologists, modern cognitive psychology suggests that he was on the right track. The tenacity of many of the right’s beliefs in the face of evidence, rational arguments, and common sense suggest that these beliefs are not merely alternate interpretations of facts but are instead illusions rooted in unconscious wishes.

This is a very human thing to do. As popular writers such as Daniel Kahneman, Cass Sunstein, and Richard Thaler have pointed out, we often use shortcuts when we reason, shortcuts that enable us to make decisions quickly and with little expenditure of mental energy. But they also often lead us astray—we underestimate the risks of events that unfold slowly and whose consequences are felt only over the long term (think global warming) and overestimate the likelihood of events that unfold rapidly and have immediate consequences (think terrorist attacks).

Our reasoning is also influenced (motivated, psychologists would say) by our emotions and instincts. This manifests in all kinds of ways: We need to maintain a positive self-image, to stave off anxiety and guilt, and to preserve social relationships. We also seek to maintain consistency in our beliefs, meaning that when people simultaneously hold two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, one or the other must go. And so we pay more attention and give more credence to information and assertions that confirm what we already believe: Liberals enthusiastically recount even the most tenuous circumstantial evidence of Trump campaign collusion with the Russians, and dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporters happily believe that the crowd really was bigger at his candidate’s inauguration.

These limits to “objective” reasoning apply to everyone, of course—left and right. Why is it that conservatives have taken the lead in falling off the deep edge?

The answer, I think, lies in the interaction between reasoning processes and personality. It’s each person’s particular motivations and particular psychological makeup that affects how they search for information, what information they pay attention to, how they assess the accuracy and meaning of the information, what information they retain, and what conclusions they draw. But conservatives and liberals typically differ in their particular psychological makeups. And if you add up all of these particular differences, you get two groups that are systematically motivated to believe different things.

Psychologists have repeatedly reported that self-described conservatives tend to place a higher value than those to their left on deference to tradition and authority. They are more likely to value stability, conformity, and order, and have more difficulty tolerating novelty and ambiguity and uncertainty. They are more sensitive than liberals to information suggesting the possibility of danger than to information suggesting benefits. And they are more moralistic and more likely to repress unconscious drives towards unconventional sexuality.

Fairness and kindness place lower on the list of moral priorities for conservatives than for liberals. Conservatives show a stronger preference for higher status groups, are more accepting of inequality and injustice, and are less empathic (at least towards those outside their immediate family). As one Tea Party member told University of California sociologist Arlie Hochschild, “People think we are not good people if we don’t feel sorry for blacks and immigrants and Syrian refugees. But I am a good person and I don’t feel sorry for them.”

Baptist minister and former Republican congressman J.C. Watts put it succinctly. Campaigning for Sen. Rand Paul in Iowa in 2015 he observed, “The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans believe people are fundamentally bad, while Democrats see people as fundamentally good.”

These conservative traits lead directly to conservative views on many issues, just as liberal traits tend to lead to liberal views on many issues. But when you consider how these conservative traits and these conservative views interact with commonly shared patterns of motivated reasoning, it becomes clearer why conservatives may be more likely to run into errors in reasoning and into difficulty judging accurately what is true and what is false.

It’s not just that Trump is “their” president, so they want to defend him. Conservatives’ greater acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority may lead to greater faith that what the president says must be true, even when the “facts” would seem to indicate otherwise. The New York Times cataloged no less than 117 clearly false statements proclaimed publicly by Trump in the first six months of his presidency, with no evident loss in his supporters’ faith in him. In the same way, greater faith in the legitimacy of the decisions of corporate CEOs may strengthen the tendency to deny evidence that there are any potential benefits from regulation of industry.

Similarly, greater valuation of stability, greater sensitivity to the possibility of danger, and greater difficulty tolerating difference and change lead to greater anxiety about social change and so support greater credulity with respect to lurid tales of the dangers posed by immigrants. And higher levels of repression and greater adherence to tradition and traditional sources of moral judgment increase the credibility of claims that gay marriage is a threat to the “traditional” family.

Conservatives are also less introspective, less attentive to their inner feelings, and less likely to override their “gut” reactions and engage in further reflection to find a correct answer. As a result, they may be more likely to rely on error-prone cognitive shortcuts, less aware of their own unconscious biases, and less likely to respond to factual corrections to previously held beliefs.

The differences in how conservatives and liberals process information are augmented by an asymmetry in group psychological processes. Yes, we all seek to keep our social environment stable and predictable. Beliefs that might threaten relationships with family, neighbors, and friends (e.g., for a fundamentalist evangelical to believe that humans are the result of Darwinian evolution or for a coal miner to believe that climate change is real and human-made) must be ignored or denied, at peril of disrupting the relationships. But among all Americans, the intensity of social networks has declined in recent years. Church attendance and union membership, participation in community organizations, and direct political involvement have flagged. Conservatives come disproportionately from rural areas and small towns, where social networks remain smaller, but denser and more homogeneous than in the big cities that liberals dominate. As a result, the opinions of family, friends, and community may be more potent in conservative hotbeds than in the more anonymous big cities where Democrats dominate.

The lack of shared reality between left and right in America today has contributed greatly to our current political polarization. Despite occasional left forays into reality denial, conservatives are far more likely to accept misinformation and outright lies. Deliberate campaigns of misinformation and conservative preferences for information that fits in with their pre-existing ideology provide only a partial explanation. Faulty reasoning and judgment, rooted in the interactions between modes of reasoning and judgment shared by all with the specific personality patterns found disproportionately among conservatives may also play a central role.

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20 Nov 2017, 19:22
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
If you believe that article, you believe a lie

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20 Nov 2017, 19:32
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
:lol:

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20 Nov 2017, 20:09
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Blackjebus wrote:
If you believe Trump, then you have no perception of the truth at all.


;)


20 Nov 2017, 20:10
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington - https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollen ... c0faf877ef

Quote:
If it's enacted, the GOP tax cut now working its way through Congress will be the start of a decades-long economic policy disaster unlike any other that has occurred in American history.


Quote:
There's no economic justification whatsoever for a tax cut at this time. U.S. GDP is growing, unemployment is close to 4 percent (below what is commonly considered "full employment"), corporate profits are at record levels and stock markets are soaring. It makes no sense to add any federal government-induced stimulus to all this private sector-caused economic activity, let alone a tax cut as big as this one.


MAGA by sending it bankrupt.

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20 Nov 2017, 20:30
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Disrupticon wrote:
Almost no one critical of the administration holds any of these positions.


The Clintonite / New Left / neoliberal establishment of the Dems holds all those positions.

I think it's not their outrage about Trump which shines a harsh light on what they are really about - it is the slimy way their backroom big shots and plugged-in oligarchs dispose of "threats" like Sanders. They and the Republicans both view humans as nothing more than commodities, and see the manipulation of elections and subversion of democracy as perfectly legitimate, as long as they are the only ones doing it.

Saturating the media with outrage over Trump and hysteria over Russia will not buy the Dems any do-overs of 2016. Nor does it explain why for a big chunk of their own (supposed) supporters, no matter how sleazy Trump obviously was, they could not be dragged to the ballot box and browbeaten into voting for Clinton.

Their party's own elite was (and still is) their biggest saboteur, and I'm not sure they are even ready to admit that.

"Centrist rainbow coalition" was about as far as their thinking extends, which is why Bernie Sanders rapid ascent shocked them to their core (and as a faction, still gets treated like a threat). Nobody invented the way they ruthlessly hobbled his campaign and mocked its ideals; it actually happened, and people - their own grassroots - resented it.

Pointing out that the Republicans whore themselves out to a different, more uncool, set of malevolent oligarchs does not help matters. If they are to truly move on, towards a 2018 or 2020 victory, it's time for that party's command hierarchy to be cleaned out of all those who are stained with that elitism, hubris, and "establishment is infallible" thinking.



Disrupticon wrote:
Let's unpack what 'identity politics" means, too, shall we?

Because when people talk about 'Identity Politics', almost invariably invoking a form of identity politics themselves, I always see this weird conflation of any of the former with the latter, which leads me to believe the term doesn't really mean much of anything anymore.


Then it is like the terms "political correctness" and "culture wars":
A real thing, at least in its effects (if not its intent) - the term certainly has a meaning which the public observes and basically understand. Both political sides have their own version of it, do they not? It is not a phenomenon of only one side, yet as much as the public sees that too, both sides engage in the hypocrisy that it is only dangerous when the other side employs it to silence yours.

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20 Nov 2017, 21:07
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
xdisciplex wrote:
Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?
An interplay between how all humans think and how conservatives tend to act might actually explain a lot about our current moment.



I read this article. I would not call it an outright falsehood, and indeed there is much in it which is true. The idea that conservatives have become accustomed to accepting & defending outright lies, things contrary to reality, deserves a serious loo: i.e. when did their movement decide that partisanship mattered so much that they must win at any cost - even at the cost of just openly telling people bullshit and aggressively attacking even basic irrefutable truth?

(It's a bit like Gandalf asking "when did Saruman the White abandon reason for madness?")


Yet, tone-wise this article is also undoubtedly a hit-piece, a bid to paint its own side as having an infallibly superior adherence to logic. As if the liberal tradition of yore made the self-identified "liberals" of today into Vulcans or something.

A lot of assumptions are made by the authors and their sources (like Buzzfeed, that pinnacle of academic respectability) which they assume must be credible simply by being ... well, liberal.

Worse, the perspective matches only the way American political culture functions, yet it is presented in the article as a universal pattern. (Showing a backhanded allegiance to American exceptionalism, and all of its illusions - heh.) So much for not taking mental shortcuts that lead to false assumptions !

I'd say this article asks a good question and then blows the answer.

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20 Nov 2017, 21:49
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Post Re: U.S. Politics: Thoughts and Prayers Edition
Rottenrocker wrote:
Blackjebus wrote:
If you leave me now, you take away the very heart of me.


<3 :girl:

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20 Nov 2017, 21:50
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