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 Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25 
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
I couldn't agree more that in some cases there have been disproportionate responses from left-leaning commentators, protesters and agitators (a.k.a. the antifa boogeyman which similarly to 'Marxists' means nothing in the context it's typically used in during these discussions), but that is neither here nor there when it comes to this situation. Furthermore, perhaps I haven't made it clear that I also take no issue with thoughtful, reasoned criticism of Islam as a religion, its sacred texts, or even its practitioners within reason. Regardless, there is a clear line when it becomes racist at a minimum, more often threatening and even borderline incitement to violence at worst, and it was agreed by everyone at the venue and by nearly all in attendance who have spoken on this publicly what happened at this gig easily broached the first two categories while falling maybe somewhat short of the third. Not only were these juvenile edgelord stickers placed all over both washrooms at least twice after they were removed by staff, but I received multiple complaints from attendees about far-right types spewing racial slurs and misogynistic comments basically all night. People I didn't even know were complaining all over social media, and someone I do know but don't have on Facebook who is completely independent of the scene happened to be there and texted me out of the blue to make a nearly identical complaint. Most of these people were not the sort you would usually associate with the far left in appearance or politics. I've gone in depth on the event page about the content of the stickers and why many found them objectionable so I won't rehash that here, but even without them the other shit I was hearing was way past what most reasonable people are willing to tolerate.

In response to the flimsy tirade below I will only say a few things, after which point I can only hope you will give it a rest and/or refer to my previous posts about this rather than expecting me to go over it all again: are you really so naive as to think that anyone is pulling the "I didn't know card" here when it comes to a handful of people in the scene, or that there is some sort of hypocrisy present in not discriminating arbitrarily against anyone with an undercut or wearing a Burzum shirt? Maybe if you show up literally dressed like Hitler or with a bunch of swazzis printed all over you than you'd do well to presume you're going to get noticed, but I personally don't really care what people listen to on their own time and I don't have the patience to vet every dodgy looking person who comes in the door. I made a choice when I started doing this to not promote unnecessary drama and to generally give people a wide berth while not being shy about my personal views. It seemed to be clear to all for many years that the reason why these sorts of shows were possible is because most showgoers understood not to push their luck and respected the integrity of the experience for those outside of their circle of cronies. If that is not the case, then this is the fucking response. People are pissed and yes, they are watching to see if anyone gets the message that using Coalition or the events I am involved with anyone as a platform for that trash is not acceptable. What you either don't grasp or choose to overlook here is that this is a very small but increasingly vocal minority of attendees I am talking about here. What generally "comes with the territory" with these sorts of events is 95% of the people there not acting like bonehead idiots. These shows aren't being put on for those cretins trying to fuck things up for the rest of us. Whether it's serious or not, it goes beyond a liability for those involved at the event, it is abusive, disrespectful and wrong. Nobody will miss you if you blow it and anyone who does can kiss my ass as well.

:lol: Some people are so desperate to cast the black metal scene as being inherently far-right/bigoted, or to imagine their favourite bands as being members of some ancient mystical society of no-liberals. If they actually spoke to many of these musicians or in some cases spent lengthy stretches of time with them, they would be in for a rude awakening. Like any underground community there is going to be a pretty diverse range of perspectives, but one unifying comment I hear from almost everyone I work with is that however they feel about "antifa" or "Marxists" or whatever else, they wish people would stop doing dumb fucking shit and bringing the heat down, because they are there to play a fucking show and not deal with the pigs or incite rioting in the streets or get written up in the paper as a hate group. Even aside from that unsatisfyingly pragmatic supporting argument, how can you type nonsense about how afraid you are of being doxed by leftists while celebrating an environment that openly encourages discrimination and hostility towards minorities with a straight face? How can you respect yourself while pushing this "woe-is-us" narrative while being either indifferent towards or flagrantly supporting those views? I find you crying about this totally laughable, and on top of that, your insistence upon equating the "underground" with tacit endorsements of racism and not responding to the feedback organizers get from those that actually come and support these events time and time again speaks to your incredibly narrow perspective on this matter as a whole.

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06 Dec 2017, 00:32
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
bravo! :beer:

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06 Dec 2017, 10:23
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
ingenting wrote:
I couldn't agree more that in some cases there have been disproportionate responses from left-leaning commentators, protesters and agitators (a.k.a. the antifa boogeyman which similarly to 'Marxists' means nothing in the context it's typically used in during these discussions), but that is neither here nor there when it comes to this situation. Furthermore, perhaps I haven't made it clear that I also take no issue with thoughtful, reasoned criticism of Islam as a religion, its sacred texts, or even its practitioners within reason. Regardless, there is a clear line when it becomes racist at a minimum, more often threatening and even borderline incitement to violence at worst, and it was agreed by everyone at the venue and by nearly all in attendance who have spoken on this publicly what happened at this gig easily broached the first two categories while falling maybe somewhat short of the third. Not only were these juvenile edgelord stickers placed all over both washrooms at least twice after they were removed by staff, but I received multiple complaints from attendees about far-right types spewing racial slurs and misogynistic comments basically all night. People I didn't even know were complaining all over social media, and someone I do know but don't have on Facebook who is completely independent of the scene happened to be there and texted me out of the blue to make a nearly identical complaint. Most of these people were not the sort you would usually associate with the far left in appearance or politics. I've gone in depth on the event page about the content of the stickers and why many found them objectionable so I won't rehash that here, but even without them the other shit I was hearing was way past what most reasonable people are willing to tolerate.

In response to the flimsy tirade below I will only say a few things, after which point I can only hope you will give it a rest and/or refer to my previous posts about this rather than expecting me to go over it all again: are you really so naive as to think that anyone is pulling the "I didn't know card" here when it comes to a handful of people in the scene, or that there is some sort of hypocrisy present in not discriminating arbitrarily against anyone with an undercut or wearing a Burzum shirt? Maybe if you show up literally dressed like Hitler or with a bunch of swazzis printed all over you than you'd do well to presume you're going to get noticed, but I personally don't really care what people listen to on their own time and I don't have the patience to vet every dodgy looking person who comes in the door. I made a choice when I started doing this to not promote unnecessary drama and to generally give people a wide berth while not being shy about my personal views. It seemed to be clear to all for many years that the reason why these sorts of shows were possible is because most showgoers understood not to push their luck and respected the integrity of the experience for those outside of their circle of cronies. If that is not the case, then this is the fucking response. People are pissed and yes, they are watching to see if anyone gets the message that using Coalition or the events I am involved with anyone as a platform for that trash is not acceptable. What you either don't grasp or choose to overlook here is that this is a very small but increasingly vocal minority of attendees I am talking about here. What generally "comes with the territory" with these sorts of events is 95% of the people there not acting like bonehead idiots. These shows aren't being put on for those cretins trying to fuck things up for the rest of us. Whether it's serious or not, it goes beyond a liability for those involved at the event, it is abusive, disrespectful and wrong. Nobody will miss you if you blow it and anyone who does can kiss my ass as well.

:lol: Some people are so desperate to cast the black metal scene as being inherently far-right/bigoted, or to imagine their favourite bands as being members of some ancient mystical society of no-liberals. If they actually spoke to many of these musicians or in some cases spent lengthy stretches of time with them, they would be in for a rude awakening. Like any underground community there is going to be a pretty diverse range of perspectives, but one unifying comment I hear from almost everyone I work with is that however they feel about "antifa" or "Marxists" or whatever else, they wish people would stop doing dumb fucking shit and bringing the heat down, because they are there to play a fucking show and not deal with the pigs or incite rioting in the streets or get written up in the paper as a hate group. Even aside from that unsatisfyingly pragmatic supporting argument, how can you type nonsense about how afraid you are of being doxed by leftists while celebrating an environment that openly encourages discrimination and hostility towards minorities with a straight face? How can you respect yourself while pushing this "woe-is-us" narrative while being either indifferent towards or flagrantly supporting those views? I find you crying about this totally laughable, and on top of that, your insistence upon equating the "underground" with tacit endorsements of racism and not responding to the feedback organizers get from those that actually come and support these events time and time again speaks to your incredibly narrow perspective on this matter as a whole.


You'd make a great politician!

I've had PC fuckheads in the "scene" do their best to sabotage my past gigs via calling the Silver Dollar and informing them i'm planning on bringing MAX RESIST. Lucky for me the Dollar's main Booker stood up for me and said thats not the case or remotely true.

I was banned from doing gigs ever again at the 460 ( Huge loss, I know lol) due to a local band covering a GBK song witch lead to another local band on the same gig refusing to play. ( I think they had no intentions in playing anyways esp after a nice grilling I got from a member of the band)

and theres much, much more.

Isn't BLACK METAL music intended for EXTREME HUMANS who more then likely have or share EXTREME VIEWS?

Paul from PROFANATICA was GG ALLIN's touring drummer.

Is this great GG track racist? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1dSj7SCHeI

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06 Dec 2017, 12:14
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
Ah- nuthin to say?? :?

Typical! :lol:

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07 Dec 2017, 13:27
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
You seem really desperate for attention but I have better things to do than get into the nuances of underground event promotions in a thread for a long past event. If there is some sort of serious discussion you feel needs to be had that I haven't already addressed above, please email briefcaseshow@gmail.com, though I ask that you seriously consider whether or not you already know the response you will get. This thread being continuously bumped is taking up space that could be used for actual upcoming events.

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07 Dec 2017, 16:02
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
ingenting wrote:
You seem really desperate for attention but I have better things to do than get into the nuances of underground event promotions in a thread for a long past event. If there is some sort of serious discussion you feel needs to be had that I haven't already addressed above, please email briefcaseshow@gmail.com, though I ask that you seriously consider whether or not you already know the response you will get. This thread being continuously bumped is taking up space that could be used for actual upcoming events.


Excatley. Nuthin to say! The more offended= less ticket sales. I get it.

To be honest. You as well as anyone have NO business "watching" anyone. It would help IF there WAS something to "watch". I knew I stayed the fuck right away from certain gigs for a reason as I'd get a tad pissed off if I was accused of any BS that took place at any event. As I've been accused of BS in the past similarly related to subjects in this thread.

If you want your local BM scene to worship Kurt Cobain ( that droney doomy crap that sounds like Earth/Nirvana) and spew abuncha PC nonsense about "offensive" stickers and "words" at a fucking PROFANATICA event then Black Metal music is simply not for you!

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07 Dec 2017, 21:36
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
i bet you've done some of the bs you've been accused of. not judging but c'mon.

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07 Dec 2017, 21:41
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
phencyclidine wrote:
i bet you've done some of the bs you've been accused of. not judging but c'mon.


I hear ya noones perfect and things do happen sometimes when alcohol is involved. The subjects I brought up in this thread that I was accused of I honestly had no part of. I'm no angel tho-thats for sure! At gigs I usually keep my mouth shut & watch the bands. I'm social on here because thats the entire point of a message board!

I've never been to a briefcase gig in my life!!

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07 Dec 2017, 21:53
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
It's obvious to anyone reading who isn't brain dead or willfully obtuse that you've said nothing whatsoever of substance in this entire thread and have failed to engage with anything I've said in a meaningful way. Suffice to say that if a promoter doing their job with some level of effectiveness makes you uncomfortable than there is probably a reason why they are still doing this and you are not, and if what you see in the line-ups for these shows is grunge or drone or whatever other meaningless scapegoat buzzword ANUS.com archivists and their parrots are whining about these days then there's no need to admit you don't come to shows because it's pretty fucking clear. If you don't like it then keep doing what you've been doing and don't buy it while everyone else capable of conducting themselves like an adult carries on without you.

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08 Dec 2017, 07:33
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
ingenting wrote:
It's obvious to anyone reading who isn't brain dead or willfully obtuse that you've said nothing whatsoever of substance in this entire thread and have failed to engage with anything I've said in a meaningful way. Suffice to say that if a promoter doing their job with some level of effectiveness makes you uncomfortable than there is probably a reason why they are still doing this and you are not, and if what you see in the line-ups for these shows is grunge or drone or whatever other meaningless scapegoat buzzword ANUS.com archivists and their parrots are whining about these days then there's no need to admit you don't come to shows because it's pretty fucking clear. If you don't like it then keep doing what you've been doing and don't buy it while everyone else capable of conducting themselves like an adult carries on without you.



Oh times are a changing. Word on the street is that certain bands are quite fed up with all the PC crap.

You forget or don't realize that I was doing gigs in the mid/late 90's lol then again but strictly electronic music promotions under the banner "DTTS" early/mid 2000's then back to metal / punk gigs again n 2006-2014 ish.

Mayyyyyyybe I'm taking a LONG break to figure out excatley who was contacting venues accusing me of bringing world known skinhead bands to the Silver Dollar ( witch was total BS of course & I know who it was that made up that tale witch was a pathetic attempt to cause me trouble)

Maaaaybe i'm letting the cards fall into their places ?

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Last edited by witchmark666 on 08 Dec 2017, 11:47, edited 1 time in total.



08 Dec 2017, 11:41
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
ingenting wrote:
Nah these were actual trolls, putting racist stickers up in the washroom and provoking people on the event page with fake accounts the day after the show. No matter, we are pretty sure we know who they are and they are being watched.


Being watched by who? ARC ? Antifa? ARA? Sharps? RCMP?

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08 Dec 2017, 11:43
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
witchmark666 wrote:
ingenting wrote:
Nah these were actual trolls, putting racist stickers up in the washroom and provoking people on the event page with fake accounts the day after the show. No matter, we are pretty sure we know who they are and they are being watched.


Being watched by who? ARC ? Antifa? ARA? Sharps? RCMP?


By venue staff, event organizers such as myself and fellow showgoers who are fed up with this bullshit. I have no affiliation with any leftist activist groups whatsoever and neither do most of the people observing this situation.

Well since you seem to know who did it and there is nothing holding you back from dominating the game going forward I look forward to your triumphant return to the Toronto underground!

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08 Dec 2017, 15:07
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
ingenting wrote:
witchmark666 wrote:
ingenting wrote:
Nah these were actual trolls, putting racist stickers up in the washroom and provoking people on the event page with fake accounts the day after the show. No matter, we are pretty sure we know who they are and they are being watched.


Being watched by who? ARC ? Antifa? ARA? Sharps? RCMP?


By venue staff, event organizers such as myself and fellow showgoers who are fed up with this bullshit. I have no affiliation with any leftist activist groups whatsoever and neither do most of the people observing this situation.

Well since you seem to know who did it and there is nothing holding you back from dominating the game going forward I look forward to your triumphant return to the Toronto underground!


If theres n affiliation with any leftist activist groups then why were "antifa" stickers put up in the bathrooms to replace the "altright" stickers?

The COLATION has no leftist activist ties ? :spit:

I have no idea who put up any stickers at the Profanatica gig. I was in Montreal. Even if I did come across it, i'd just see it as graffiti on a bathroom stall wall. Welcome to Toronto or any big city! The only person it really effects is the poor bastard that gets stuck cleaning it up! Witch brings me to a incident that occurred at a 460 gig of mine.The 460 had its "regulars" being the local SHARPS some of them not liking the idea of having to pay like everyone else to get into the metal gigs- one of them "shit bombed" the mens bathroom-i'm talking shit smeared up and down the bathroom walls-all over the toilet. It was rather gross. The owner told me "you clean up my bathroom-or jo more shows for you!!" Since I had out of town bands comming days later I fuckin got stuck cleaning up the shit.

As you know, doing gigs yourself, ultimately your responsible for what occurs at the gig. Thats why I don't understand the idea of putting on a gig with a band like PROFANATICA and then complaining over measly silly stickers that can be easily removed.

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08 Dec 2017, 21:35
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
i'm still trying to figure out what your actual beef is. hipsters ruined black metal? welcome to 7 years ago :lol:

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08 Dec 2017, 21:39
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
You're a moron and there's no point in arguing with you anymore, time to move on

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09 Dec 2017, 00:54
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
what's a COLATION

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11 Dec 2017, 10:48
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
A copier setting.

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11 Dec 2017, 11:18
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
Image

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11 Dec 2017, 12:01
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
Lol you still have my post as your signature. :lol:


11 Dec 2017, 13:52
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
I have to defend ingenting here, I'm sorry... he's been known for quite some time now that he gives people a wide berth and doesn't get into discussions about what shirts people wear, and whether or not someone's Arghoslent shirt is enough grounds for denying them entry.

I would argue that that isn't because he wants ticket sales... it's because, as witchmark666 says, he knows that some of that "comes with the territory", which it does.

As such, I don't think that he is acting in any way unfair, in fact, would people actually be more comfortable with a promoter enforcing strict policies where the only people that are allowed to see their bands are people who they agree with politically? Fuck no, that would be a scene disaster, and I'm sure that that would be much more cause of consternation than the current situation.

I can't comment on the stickers as I don't know what they were as I wasn't in attendance, but nor do I care really. Whether or not I personally would have found them amusing or threatening is irrelevant... ingenting is obligated to respond to complaints because, after all, he's running a business. He could easily have called out the suspects like most witch hunters do, but he hasn't, because he has more tact. I think the response is totally reasonable

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11 Dec 2017, 16:07
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
Svarog wrote:
He could easily have called out the suspects like most witch hunters do, but he hasn't, because he has more tact. I think the response is totally reasonable


Yes, but what goes on behind the scenes or beyond the "braveboard" is unknown.

I doubt the venue said "ya-ok NP! Nothing offensive to our business happened! Lets host another extreme BM gig ASAP!" ( I used the term extreme because Profanatica is way beyond putting on red makeup and posing for digicam pix)

Like Intering said- The Venue and himself are "watching" certain people. Personally, a couple stickers aren't worth the massive fuss they created! I'm for freedom of expression as long as it doesn't go as far as a fanatic Muslim fuck blowing up people they don't even know along with emselves. Stickers are no comparison.

What this thread is - a scene "cleansing" of sorts. I'm SURE actually 100% positive people are talking ALOT more then they are out in the open on a message fuckin board!

If you want your scene policed, that's your deal. If you want it even more PC where even if you SAY the word Nazi outside the venue that makes you a Nazi?

I'd prefer going to Black Metal gigs like the ones that took place at Duffys. Anything goes. The promoters are security. Fuck around and you get stomped- skinhead or not! People would show up with a fresh Hitler stash cut for the gig! Or wear a shirt with nothing but a swastika on it! The best part is neither guys were Nazi's- just jokesters that don't take life that serious. Everyone was WELCOMED!

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12 Dec 2017, 14:25
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
ingenting wrote:
You're a moron and there's no point in arguing with you anymore, time to move on



You're a doodoo head !!!! :cry:

Once then name calling starts, that's when you know you're onto something!

Hopefully MINISTRY will be PROFANATICA's support next time they come to town! :guitar:

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12 Dec 2017, 14:30
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
witchmark666 wrote:

I'd prefer going to Black Metal gigs like the ones that took place at Duffys. Anything goes. The promoters are security. Fuck around and you get stomped- skinhead or not! People would show up with a fresh Hitler stash cut for the gig! Or wear a shirt with nothing but a swastika on it! The best part is neither guys were Nazi's- just jokesters that don't take life that serious. Everyone was WELCOMED!


I would prefer that too but it's not going to happen at Coalition... that much is clear. Expecting that at a venue like that in Kensington Market, is, well, unrealistic

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12 Dec 2017, 16:08
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
Svarog wrote:
witchmark666 wrote:

I'd prefer going to Black Metal gigs like the ones that took place at Duffys. Anything goes. The promoters are security. Fuck around and you get stomped- skinhead or not! People would show up with a fresh Hitler stash cut for the gig! Or wear a shirt with nothing but a swastika on it! The best part is neither guys were Nazi's- just jokesters that don't take life that serious. Everyone was WELCOMED!


I would prefer that too but it's not going to happen at Coalition... that much is clear. Expecting that at a venue like that in Kensington Market, is, well, unrealistic


Why not? According to Intering Coalition ISN'T affiliated with ANTIFA whatsoever.

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12 Dec 2017, 16:13
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Post Re: Profanatica/Sortilegia/Ilmestys/Azothyst T.O. 11/25
witchmark666 wrote:
Svarog wrote:
witchmark666 wrote:

I'd prefer going to Black Metal gigs like the ones that took place at Duffys. Anything goes. The promoters are security. Fuck around and you get stomped- skinhead or not! People would show up with a fresh Hitler stash cut for the gig! Or wear a shirt with nothing but a swastika on it! The best part is neither guys were Nazi's- just jokesters that don't take life that serious. Everyone was WELCOMED!


I would prefer that too but it's not going to happen at Coalition... that much is clear. Expecting that at a venue like that in Kensington Market, is, well, unrealistic


Why not? According to Intering Coalition ISN'T affiliated with ANTIFA whatsoever.


They may not be, but most institutions in that area are reflexively "left" one way or another. Not being affiliated with antifa simply means that they aren't going around and beating people up for no reason, but that doesn't mean that they are ok with the attendance of everyone and anyone.

I'm just stating it how it is, not necessarily how I'd like it to be

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12 Dec 2017, 16:43
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